Update: Hello Digg
Update 2: Seems this article still gets a lot of hits. Dell doesn’t disappoint these days. They sell Ubuntu at a great price.
Even though Dell Digg is full of Linux requests, Dell utterly disappoints me in its Linux support.
Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt. With all these Linux cries from customers, maybe Dell is finally changing their tune to us who use open source software on a day to day basis. First things first, lets take the new n-series D420 and lets compare that with a windows-loaded D420. Enter doubt. Upon first opening these systems, we see that the n-series is $1252 and the windows-loaded laptop comes in at $1199. Again, let’s keep a cool head. Maybe they had to give you an upgraded video card or better wireless that has some superb Linux driver. Scroll down. This is where you start to get frustrated.
Dell’s computer with no operating system is $53 more expensive than one loaded with Vista!
This is crap! This is where anyone commenting on Dell’s Desktop Linux offering at the moment should be in outraged and call them out on this. I can see Microsoft using this to say that no one buys Linux PCs when they’re available. Again, crap! I’m going to go out on a limb and say that anyone looking to get Linux on a PC is smart enough to know that you can erase windows. And at $53 dollars more, where is the advantage of buying a PC without it?
I read this on Dell’s Linux Blog which is syndicated on Planet Fedora?! Please Dell Blog, don’t tell us about your smashing Linux deals when you know we can buy a Windows PC from you for cheaper. Why would you want to rip off the community. Furthermore, I’m buying system76.com until these practices change and would urge anyone else looking for a Linux PC to do the same. Dell could win me back. I’m a sucker for cheap prices and don’t care about support.
To sum, if you buy Dell, you support Microsoft. Even if you don’t want to. (Unless you’re a moron who wants to spend $53 for nothing on n-series) Can you really return it? That’s not good enough. I don’t want to buy it. I don’t want to support them.
I also recently decided that I wont be supporting any vendors that overcharge for or don’t offer a non-MS release. I also will be getting a new Darter from System76 as soon as my tax return comes through
February 23, 2007 @ 8:41 pm
The only difference I could find is the “resource CD” that comes with the OS-less model. I see it on the print summaries for each machine, about halway down.
But if Dell thinks I’m sinking $53 in a CD, they’re nuts.
You’re right: I’ll take a System76 over that any day. It’s a huge ripoff. Good find.
February 23, 2007 @ 9:50 pm
Dell makes a lot of money from Adware and Spyware that gets pre-loaded with Windows. The spyware and adware almost certainly more than covers the cost of Vista.
Note that even Vista itself is such a program – and I bet Dell gets a nice kickback for everyone who upgrades from a crippled “home” version of XP or Vista to “professional” or “ultimate”. That upgrade kickback alone probably covers the cost of the OEM version of Vista.
February 24, 2007 @ 6:18 am
There is a strong possibility that the reason that the prices are higher is that Microsoft could be paying them some money for every Windows machine they push out the door. Without an operating system, they don’t get the bonus. Maybe.
February 24, 2007 @ 6:25 am
53 more and you are complaining. Give me a break. Subtract it from the virus free environment, the no spyware……give me a break you windows fud spreader.
February 24, 2007 @ 6:34 am
[...] buranen.info: Dell’s computer with no operating system is $53 more expensive than one loaded with [...]
February 24, 2007 @ 7:02 am
Dell computer with Linux costs more than a Dell computer with Windows Vista…
http://buranen.info/?p=77…
February 24, 2007 @ 7:13 am
[...] read more | digg story [...]
February 24, 2007 @ 7:14 am
[...] with the open source version, there’s no readily identifiable difference between the two.read more | digg [...]
February 24, 2007 @ 7:19 am
Although it seems contradictory at first, it really isn’t. Dell and most PC manufacturers get money for installing bunch of Software in their computers like Norton antivirus or Office trial versions. That way they can subsidize their computers and sell them cheaper than they actually are since they can subsidize the cost of the OS licensing and even some of the hardware.
February 24, 2007 @ 7:24 am
Get Acer instead! Their linux notebooks cost around $100+ lesser than its WindowsXP.
February 24, 2007 @ 7:46 am
cantormath: I’m at a loss with what to say. This is not Windows FUD. I just don’t want to pay more to get less. Maybe this is sarcasm that I’m not picking up through typing.
Snappy: I’m checking Acer now!
February 24, 2007 @ 8:00 am
the delta is a result of:
- rebates (to dell)
- co-marketing contracts
but mostly, support cost. dell for now believes that linux (or sans os) cost them more in support cost than a pre-installed windows machine.
February 24, 2007 @ 8:19 am
You want a Linux laptop? Buy a nice, older, used laptop for about $300-500 and install Linux on it yourself. Keep the WinDoZe key in case you need to re-sell it. Legally, an OEM key only belongs to the system it came with anyway. I wouldn’t pay $1200 or even $800 for a brand new laptop when a good used one will run Linux with less resources and better support. We’ve always known that companies like Dell were getting kickbacks for installing crapware, and since we ARE in the MINORITY, we really need to get used to it.
February 24, 2007 @ 9:19 am
Seriously. Ia agree with cantormath. Who cares? I’m sure the $52 is just to cover the insane discounts they’re not getting from installing all of the bloatware. First you people complain that Dell doesn’t offer linux. Now instead of being happy you find something else to complain about.
February 24, 2007 @ 9:46 am
PillowPants, I put this to you. Where’s the incentive to buy an n-series? Who is actually going to buy it when you can get the EXACT SAME PC for $53 cheaper and run Linux on it just the same as you would an n-series.
Yes I’ll complain. There’s no reason I should be happy about being forced to buy Windows.
February 24, 2007 @ 9:54 am
So, buy the windows machine, format the hard drive (which you have to do anyway to get the preloaded crap out) and install a free distro. Or partition and install several distros. Fedora is a great choice, but it’s easier to configure a distro during install, rather than accepting someone else’s preferences. Drivers are no longer such an issue that preconfigured is that much of a benifit.
February 24, 2007 @ 10:01 am
The open source laptop probably costs more because Dell doesn’t get the deals from the companies that bundle software into every Windows computer. You know, like the Earthlink or AOL internet trials. Those companies pay Dell to install the shortcuts, so in effect, they subsidize part of the cost of the new computer.
February 24, 2007 @ 10:05 am
To me it depends on what you’re looking for – newer laptops have definite advantages (Core [2] Duo FTW) but most people can get away with older laptops, indeed.
Also if you’re getting a new laptop for Linux get one with the GMA950 if you’re not interested in gaming. Aside from maybe having to use 915resolution to add video modes the support is seamless and quite snappy for all the fancy new desktop effects.
February 24, 2007 @ 10:16 am
It sucks, but in the end, I’ll take the box with Vista on it and delete it to save the $53. I am more concerned with what I pay than who gets what money from the purchase.
February 24, 2007 @ 10:17 am
lolz, only idiots buy dell
February 24, 2007 @ 10:33 am
@ Homer
Yes it sucks, and yes you should care who gets what money from the purchase. Why?
Because:
1) If you buy the PC with Vista on it, MS will count it in their copies of Vista sold.
2) If everyone buys that Vista PC from Dell, their numbers will show that no-one wants Linux, which is incorrect.
3) If everyone refuses to buy the Dell PC with Linux, their numbers will show that no-one wants Linux, which is again incorrect.
They have created a catch-22 for people who really want to buy a new Linux PC from them.
This is important because Dell needs to understand that we want to see Linux offerings, but don’t want to be screwed. The PC without an OS should cost at least $50 less!
Shame on you Dell. Shame on you.
February 24, 2007 @ 1:10 pm
Unfortunately for us, Dell makes money selling crap like Windows and McAfee by default.
February 24, 2007 @ 1:42 pm
Seems to me that the only reason Dell might be charging a little more for a computer without an OS is because the hardware that might come in this model is not software-controlled like the Winmodems and WinNICs we’ve come to hate when using any old laptop/desktop with Linux. It’s possible that these machines have the hardware that’s known to work right out of the box either with a preinstallation of Linux or another OS or one that you install yourself. Personally, I would pay the extra amount for better hardware and no OS. Consider that using the parts that are only supported on Windows make the computer cheaper and the price of Windows is offset by this.
February 24, 2007 @ 3:02 pm
[...] days back. Though Dell actually is pushing forward with their offering, their open PCs won’t be any cheaper. In fact, you’ll end up paying a significantly higher price for a FreeDOS PC than one [...]
February 24, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Dell is crappy hardware, has terrible customer support, and is overpriced. Have your own computer assembled, it’s 10x better.
February 24, 2007 @ 3:53 pm
Derk…no one is forcing you to buy a Dell computer. Wstop whining like a little bithc about it simply because you have NO IDEA how business works. It actually costs Dell MORE MONEY for the computer without all the subsidies, therefore they charge more.
February 24, 2007 @ 4:05 pm
Seriously…imagine walking up to the NY Times and demanding that they offer a version of their paper without ads. And then expecting them to charge less since it is fewer pages. That is how idiotic you are being derek.
February 24, 2007 @ 4:14 pm
kyfer…prices are not set based on what you WANT them to be. It is set based on how much consumers wants…PLUS how much it costs the manufacturer to make.
Simply put…it costs Dell more money to make a computer without all the added programs. Plain and simple. (OK, it costs the same, but then they don’t get part of it subsidized.) So…anyone with ANY bit of common sense says that Dell HAS to charge more for it. They are not going to accept $100 less profit just to plase a few virgins.
February 24, 2007 @ 4:24 pm
To all the critics who tell me to stop bitchin, you don’t get the point of my article.
Why would dell sell an n-series? Who is actually going to buy it. An n-series is same in terms of hardware, but costs more. Like Homer says, I’ll buy a non-n-series, boot my Ubuntu CD, and be $53 richer with the same PC.
It doesn’t make sense for Dell to even make an n-series line if it costs more than Windows.
To all the people who say that it costs more to support Linux. Dell doesn’t support Linux. They install FreeDOS. FreeDOS is not Linux. It does not use Linux drivers. If you install Linux, you do not get support from Dell. You are on your own.
To the one person talking about softmodems and such. This is the same hardware! There is no difference there.
February 24, 2007 @ 5:10 pm
Dell con open source vale 53 dolares mas que el equivalente con Windows Vista…
Sin duda esta muy bien que Dell empiece a vender sus equipos con softare libre preinstalado como Ubuntu o OpenSuse, pero lo que no esta claro es porque cobra mas con esta configuracion que con el equivalente con Windows Vista preinstalado. ¿No se supo…
February 24, 2007 @ 5:36 pm
Derek:
In response to #25:
Perhaps Dell put this n-series computer up on their website in answer to everyone who is asking for machines with pre-installed Linux or blank hardware.
The mainstream consumer (ie “grandma”) doesn’t want a computer without an operating system on it. They won’t even look at this computer, because it doesn’t come with Windows.
The Linux enthusiasts have been clamoring for a computer without the “Windows Tax.” Well, here it is. However, for Dell the Windows Tax is really a Windows Subsidy (I suspect it is for many other manufacturers as well). If you don’t want your money going to Microsoft, you don’t have to, but Dell isn’t going to take a financial hit for it, and I don’t blame them. If you don’t care about supporting Microsoft, save $53 and reformat.
This is quickly becoming a huge flamewar. Why does everyone assume conspiracy or unfairness? Why would Dell choose to lose profits from loss of software incentive revenue (which may be almost all of their margin on this computer) to please a small number of users?
The people who are choosing system76 over Dell because of this $53 are going to pay significantly more than $53 extra to get a machine without Windows.
February 24, 2007 @ 6:56 pm
There’s something unsavory about Dell’s relationship with Microsoft and Novell. Dell’s made a lot of money from their relationship with Microsoft over the years so they clearly don’t want to rock the boat. Maybe that’s why Dell chose to use Microsoft’s officially sanctioned version of Linux and why they’re working with Novell certify their Latitudes, Optiplexes & other machines with Linux installed.
Microsoft invested in Novell about the same time they decided they’d start legally harassing those using other versions of Linux that might “contain code that violates Microsoft intellectual property rights”. Who knows what nasty legal terms came with Microsoft’s Novell investment, but the result is that Microsoft is now backing one horse in the Linux race to the detriment of others.
It is in Microsoft’s best interest for Dell to use Novell’s version of Linux and to have Novell certify the installations. It’s also in Microsoft’s best interest to have those Linux installations cost more.
Yes, there are other less sinister reasons why Dell’s Linux machines may cost more (like support costs), but it certainly is convenient how this works in Microsoft’s favor.
February 24, 2007 @ 10:38 pm
So.. You just want your system with linux because is cheaper.. and Who is going to pay the support ? for free? who is going to adapt the installation with for free?
February 25, 2007 @ 8:21 am
[...] a popular user voting site. Not sure if the solution is worked out, as the costs may be even higher to get a wiped hardware machine. The Story So Far Dell was blindsided from ignorance They learned how to listen They built tools [...]
February 25, 2007 @ 9:07 am
From http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen
Pre-Installed Linux Options
It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice. Your feedback has been all about flexibility and we have seen a consistent request to provide platforms that allow people to install their operating system of choice. We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. This is another step towards ensuring that our customers have a good experience with Linux on our systems.
As this community knows, there is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux. In the last week, the IdeaStorm community suggested more than half a dozen distributions. We don’t want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line. We are continuing to investigate your other Linux-related ideas, so please continue to check here for updates.
February 25, 2007 @ 12:22 pm
[...] starting to flirt with Linux – could this be the first step to a breakup with Microsoft?read more | digg [...]
February 25, 2007 @ 7:28 pm
[...] “Oh Dell, why must you disappoint me so?” [...]
February 26, 2007 @ 7:27 am
[...] getting greedy with open [...]
February 26, 2007 @ 9:03 pm
I just picked up a low end Dell 640m n-series machine for my fiancee as a replacement for her aging Centrino based Compaq …
couple of thoughts:
1- The n-series machine isn’t advertised on the frontpage or anywhere else on the site. It’s only when you dig deeper inside by chooing a product, and then a model line (in my case, >Inspiron>640m ) that you see the n-series available as an option…
Apparently this is because Dell’s OEM contract with MS prohibits them from advertising the n-series
2- The n-series machine did not allow any processor upgrade options….The processor choice radio button was grayed out with a default option of the lowest end Core Duo processor – T2050
Other upgrade options were available however (screen upgrade, HDD upgrade etc.)
I have no idea why this is so because the non n-series 640m machine had a bunch of processor options available up to T7200
3- The n-series was cheaper by a cool INR 6500 (US $144) or ~18% over the non n-series at the base configuration
The base non n-series however had a free upgrade to the T2250 which otherwise is a INR 1800 (US $ 40) upgrade
But even when you take out the free upgrade bit, the n-series is still INR 4700 (USD 104) cheaper which is pretty much the same as what a retail XP home copy costs
I finally ended up ordering the n-series as this machine is not going to be used for anything but web-browsing
However, I still don’t like the fact that Dell did not allow any processor upgrade on this machine
February 27, 2007 @ 6:21 am
oops…forgot to mention that the above post was for an order from Dell India
February 27, 2007 @ 6:25 am
Obviously, you want to buy your Dell with Vista preinstalled, wipe Vista and install Linux. You save the money and still get the better OS. Win-Win.
February 27, 2007 @ 4:35 pm
[...] is the devil. http://buranen.info/?p=77 "Dells computer with no operating system is $53 more expensive than one loaded with [...]
February 28, 2007 @ 7:12 pm
[...] Planet Fedora often just to get a community pulse and look at their amazing artwork. While I blasted Dell recently for their open source effort thus far, I still have hope. As of today, Dell has a [...]
March 13, 2007 @ 7:34 am
There are many other vendors of hardware. In fact, most hardware is made in China/Taiwan anyways so you’re getting mostly the same parts no matter from whom you buy. See: http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html
We offer solutions for businesses to move to Open Source and regularly recommend DELL and many other hardware vendors. The sad part is not the money being spent on hardware but the money being wasted when free and often superior equivalents are on the market. E.g. Linux servers and now the Linux desktop. We are working on an initiative (http://www.bluethumbcomputing.com/) to make this an even faster adoption process. We believe the limiting factor in FOSS adoption is how quicly an easy solution may be deployed. Today, it still follows the old-school, download/install/roll-out model. The pre-installed thumb drive or external disk makes the process easier and less error-prone.
March 15, 2007 @ 3:14 am
Oh yeah, this pricing is probably due to some hiccup with a procurement spec. E.g. some official probably speced “Linux or no OS” plus “DELL” (in a round about fashion of course) so this is how they can drive the purchase price up. Here’s the preinstalled link again as it did not take: http://www.bluethumbcomputing.com
March 15, 2007 @ 3:16 am
I think Dell is attracted by some future profit of better hardware
used by consumer besieds the benifit from microsoft now.There should be more attacting software under linux requiring higher hardware capability such as 64bit cpu or so.
March 15, 2007 @ 6:16 am
My exhuband thought it would be clever to buy a Dell computer using my name and my Dell Preferred Customer Account. I filed a police report and notified Dell in January, 2007. It’s April, I still cannot get through to Dell that this is not my bill and that I do not have the computer in my possesion. When I asked for a supervisor or someone up the food chain I was refused. I spoke with Employee Badget #879821 who refused to give me ANYONE’s phone number or address that could settle this.
M.
April 2, 2007 @ 10:29 am
[...] Aparentemente la gente de Samsung está analizando el caso. Sin embargo, lo que queda claro que esta forma de hacer negocios comienza a degradarse lentamente. Esta semana fue noticia que Dell comienza a vender computadoras con el sistema operativo Ubuntu GNU/Linux preinstalado [ver también, 1, 2, 3 y 4]. [...]
May 26, 2007 @ 10:11 am
If you want to use something other than Ubuntu, I would recommend another company to purchase from.
I and my brother bought our laptops from ynot2k.com. Since System 76 doesn’t openly reveal their base systems, I compared pictures from System 76 until I found a match (Pangolin == Asus S96S), then configured (ynot gives you more options) a machine with equal specs costs $200 less.
August 9, 2007 @ 8:44 am
[...] read more | digg story [...]
October 17, 2007 @ 6:14 am
Well, newspapers don’t hide that they make money off of ads. I think the incestious relationship MS has with PC manufacturers makes all the difference. MS PR doesn’t want to admit they have a a monopoly, and that is why people are in an uproar.
Monopalies are bad for the consumer. If you’re going to charge more for less, than you should explain that you’re actually loading your customer’s PCs with spyware & in a deal with MS to push peope towards their goals, not the consumers’.
March 20, 2008 @ 8:30 pm
Scrolling through the comments, I can’t help but wonder… could the biggest stumbling block for future and ongoing adoption of Linux/Ubuntu/OSS by the non-geek, non-fanatic, non-enthusiast world be the sheer inability of those in the movement to stick to the point at hand?!
Shades of /.
April 12, 2009 @ 3:03 am
[...] Buranen points this out on his blog, and I’ve done the math too and come up with the same results: Dell wants $53 more for a [...]
December 17, 2009 @ 7:31 pm
For me, the best operating system is Linux because it rarely hangs.~;”
May 20, 2010 @ 10:29 am